PROFESSOR EMERITUS AYORINDE BAMGBOSE (NN0M), fondly called Ayo Bamgbose, described by Professor Eyamba Bokamba as a Dean of African Linguistics and mentor to all Nigerian linguists, was born on Wednesday January 27, 1932, into the family of Reverend Emmanuel Sangodipe Bamgbose and Mrs. Victoria A. Bamgbose, in Odopotu, an upcoming town of about 3000 residents in Ijebu North East, near Ijebu Ode town, Ogun State, Nigeria. He was the fifth child in the family, but the first surviving child. All his elder siblings died between 12th and 20th day of their births, except his immediate elder brother, who managed to survive for about four years before he died. His father’s death as a result of heart related decease at 44, which occurred on Saturday November 22, 1941, when he was just nine years old, made him to develop a kind of thanatophobia, a constant fear that he could die around 44. According to him in his autobiography, “From Grass to Grace”, “The magic number 44, the age at which my father passed on, became an albatross for me. As I carried on in life, I kept wondering whether I would not die at 44. This thought became more worrisome as I approached that age. When I turned 44, I tried to console myself by saying that, should the dreaded event occur at that time, I could claim to have achieved a lot, having been promoted a full professor six years earlier. As the years rolled by, the fear of early death receded and I started to make plans for more years.” Bamgbose is a first in many things, including but not limited to being the first black (African) to read Linguistics at PhD level, the first employed Black Linguistics lecturer in the University of Ibadan (UI), the first President, Nigerian Academy of Letters (NAL), first African linguist to be conferred honorary membership of the Linguistic Society of America (LSA), first African president of the International Association of World Englishes and 2nd Vice-President of the Permanent International Committee of Linguists, the first time an African linguist has been so honoured. Among the notable scholars whose PhD theses he supervised was late Professor Akinwunmi Isola, a notable playwright, novelist, actor, dramatist and culture activist. He also served as the internal examiner at the defence of his friend’s PhD thesis, Professor Ayo Banjo, the former Vice Chancellor of Nigeria’s Premier University, who is currently the Chairman, Board of the National Universities Commission (NUC). One of the significant issues Bamgbose shared in his book, is the eagerness of Nigerian students abroad in time past to come home and contribute their quota to the development of Nigeria, contrary to what is presently obtainable. He said, “Today, going back home after studying abroad is the remotest thought that will occur to most Nigerian students. But then, can one really blame them, considering the chaotic situation in our country? What is there to attract one back to a country with decaying infrastructures, decadent institutions, rampant corruption and disdain for intellectual pursuits?” In his 54 minutes interview with GBENRO ADESINA, in his mini sitting room in his palatial residence, Prof Bamgbose shared his humble beginning and how his parents shaped his personality to make him a disciplined, focused and hardworking person, who will not compromise anything for the truth. As Prof Banjo succinctly puts it, “Bamgbose will stand firmly on the side of truth and equity.” He also shared how he struggled to go to school, make it to the peak of his career, how Professor Ayo Banjo became his adopted twin brother, how he met his late wife, Adenike Bamgbose, his sojourn at Edinburg University, Scotland, and the ugly experience of lecturing job under the military era, when lecturers were almost reduced to rubbles.
The Excerpt:
Q: At 90, how do you feel?
A: I don’t feel different. In fact, most people say that I don’t look my age and that is the grace of God. To be able to live up to 90 is significant for me because my father died at the age of 44. I kept worrying that, maybe, I will not live more than 44. I did 44. I did double 44. This is 88. Now, I am 90. So, it is very meaningful to me.
Q: What was the impact of your father’s death on you?
A: It has a great repercussion on me. Most young people, my age at that time want to go to primary school, secondary school and university. I went to primary school. I took entrance examination to secondary school. I passed and got admitted to Ijebu Ode Grammar School, but there was no money for me to take up the offer. If my father had not died, the sky would have been the limit in terms of early education. But God was with me. I finished primary six. I went to be a pupil teacher at Christ Church School, Odosenlu. When I was a teacher, I took entrance examination to St Andrew College, Oyo. It is a teachers’ training institution. That was 1947, when I took the examination. I passed and got admission in 1948. I finished in 1951. So, I taught for a number of years and I was taking Correspondence of The Rapid Results College. I passed GCE O/Level and GCE A/Level. In fact, I had five O/Level and five A/Level at the time I applied to University College, Ibadan (UCI). I thought of a number of possibilities. I could read Economics. I was interested in Economics. I could read English. Fortunately, English admitted me. We had to take exam. So, we took qualifying exam before we were admitted to Hons. Fortunately, I passed and I was one of the people admitted to Hons, English. At the end of that year, some of us could not make it and had to drop. They were asked to go and do general degree. It was very very tough in those days.
Q: Could you recount some of your experiences with your father before he passed on as well as what you learnt from him?
A: Yes, I learnt a lot about discipline. My father was a Reverend gentle man. We would have prayer in the morning and prayer in the evening. With all these kinds of disciplines, you could not easily escape being what you are. That is the major thing that I learnt from my father. I learnt discipline from my father.
Q: Was he using cane on you whenever you do something wrong?
A: You know the English expression: spear the rod and spoil the child. Fortunately, it was only once in a while.
Q: What was your growing up like?
A: When you live in the house of a Reverend, many people will be brought into your house. My mother was very very kind. She taught us that all children are equal. There is no difference between biological children and the other children. When they give us food to eat, the senior would take meat before me, even though, he is not a biological child. My mother was really kind.
Q: Sir, what is your position in your family?
A: Well, unfortunately, a number of children born before me died. The one that I followed was number four. He lived for about four years. We used to play together, then he died too. So, I then became the eldest surviving child. We were playing together. But I was still young. One day, I didn’t see him anymore. I didn’t know what happened…
Q: Is it right to say that ‘Abiku’ affected your parents?
A: Yes, it affected them in the sense that when it came to my turn to be born, they decided that I had to be taken to my mother’s father’s place, my maternal grandfather’s place. That was where I was actually born. They said they don’t want this one to die.
Q: So, your parents believed in Abiku?
A: Yes, they did but they didn’t say I was Abiku. They were afflicted by Abiku because Abiku means one goes another one comes. The one I follow did not go until I was born. We played together before he died.
Q: As an educated and enlightened person, do you believe in the Abiku phenomenon?
A: Of course not. There is nothing like Abiku. The child rearing in those days, was not what it should be. You know that when we were born, if they want to give us food to eat, they would put us on their laps and forcefully feed us. Force feeding. That one is enough to kill anybody.
Q: Abiku phenomenon is anchored on spirituality not ordinary as you have explained. If Abiku does not exist, people like Wole Soyinka and J. P. Clark would not have written about them. What do you think?
A: It is a strong cultural belief among the Yoruba. Not only that they believe in the existence of Abiku, they see physical signs, which reinforce their belief in Abiku phenomenon. For example, the child who is thought to be Abiku, it may be one finger that is missing when he is born, because they cut the finger of the dead one before being buried. They will say that is the one that went and came back.
Q: When you were younger, was there any naughty thing you did that you will like to share?
A: All children did all these things. One, I remember behaving like a traffic warden. I will stand and be directing vehicles imaginatively. I imagined myself as someone who was in control. I thought I would be a policeman.
Q: If you had wished to read Economics, that means you passed Mathematics at O/Level. What was your grade in Mathematics in your WAEC?
A: Of course, I did pass Mathematics. Well, I don’t remember the grade.
Q: I asked that question because it is believed that those in the Arts are poor in Mathematics and they are in the Arts because they are poor in the subject. So, I want to know whether you opted for English because you are not good in Mathematics.
A: I did math, I did English, I did Latin.
Q: So, it wasn’t because you didn’t know Mathematics that you could not do Economics?
A: Far from it.
Q: What is your advice for the younger ones who are running away from sciences because of Mathematics?
A: Well, I can only see that as inferiority complex because the reason they insist on Mathematics in the Sciences is that you need a lot of statistics. The same thing in the Social Sciences. You don’t need to quantify a lot in Law. To some extent, Religious Studies. In Linguistics, where I am a professor, you need some of it – quantitative linguistics. It will be useful if you have Mathematics. But if we insist that they must have O/Level Mathematics before coming in, we are going to have a problem because Linguistics is not a secondary school subject. You will learn it when you get to the university.
Q: Could you talk about your schooling?
A: I first got to primary school, Bethlehem African School, Odopotu, in 1936. I was born in Odopotu in 1932. So, I had my first contact with school at four years old. When I got there, they said I should put my hand on my head to reach my ear, but my hand could not reach my ear. So, they sent me back home. My father was the school manager, being a Reverend. He said, okay, let him sit at the back of the class. He will not be a student; I will not register. So, I was sitting at the back watching what was going on in the class. The following year, I became a student proper at age five. I did my Standard One to Standard Four in that school. The school only had classes up to Standard Four. I had to go to Emmanuel School, Isonyin, which is a sort of central school for all of us in that area. It had all classes from Standard One to Six. So, I did my Standard Five and Six at Emmanuel School. After that, I went to St. Andrew College between 1948-1951. After that I went to University College Ibadan (UCI), where I read English.
Q: You have omitted secondary school education?
A: That was what I explained to you that I took entrance examination to secondary school. I was admitted to Ijebu Ode Grammar School, but I couldn’t pick up the offer because of lack of money. Because my father had died, I had nobody to sponsor me. So, I went to St Andrew College. It is a teachers’ training institution. It is equivalent of secondary school, or even more than a secondary school. When you finish there with a grade 2 certificate, you can then do anything. So, I took GCE O/Level and A/Level, on the basis of which, I was admitted to university. So, a college for teachers and secondary school are like similar thing.
Q: Your first job is a pupil teacher. How much were you pay?
A: I was 13 years old when I became a pupil teacher. One pound is my salary for a month.
Q: How did you survive with it?
A: My mother was subsiding me.
Q: As a widow, what was she doing to make money to take care of her children?
A: She did a lot. She was selling things. She had a shop at Gbagi in Ibadan.
Q: What exactly was she selling?
A: Kitchen wares.
Q: Did you ever assist her to sell in the shop?
A: No. I was already busy doing one thing or the other.
Q: You have told us about your elder siblings, who have died, do you have younger siblings?
A: Yes, I do. They attended different schools. My brother got a job in Lagos State Ministry of Culture. My sister was a graduate of Ife.
Q: So, you are three?
A: Yes, three at that time because we had lost my brother, the youngest son, he died. My sister also died about four years ago. So, we are only two left.
Q: If you had not been a teacher, what other profession would you have ventured into?
A: Law.
Q: Why?
A: When I was a teacher at Ilaro, my great interest was to go to court, to see how lawyers perform. I love it when they say “I put it to you”. The thing impresses me so much. Later, when I saw Rotimi Williams, the way he was doing in the court, I imagined myself being a lawyer talking to the judge, “my lord”. There is something about being an advocate, not a solicitor, standing before a judge. It appeals to me. In fact, I bought books on law. I would have done law if there was a scholarship for me.
Q: So, it is correct to say that funds aborted your dream of being a lawyer?
A: Of course. If there was money, I would have gone to study Law, but let me tell you this. I do not regret studying Linguistics because it then turned out that I was the first person to study Linguistics in Nigeria. In fact, the first African Professor of Linguistics. Yes, there are many lawyers. How many can be first? That is a big plus for me.
Q: Then, it is also correct to say that you are the father of all the Linguists in Africa?
A: Yes.
Q: There was a Professor Eyamba Bokamba, who describes you as a Dean of African Linguistics?
A: Yes, yes.
Q: I am inquisitive to know the particular university the faculty is domiciled?
A: (Heavy Laughter). He is Professor Eyamba Bokamba. He was the one that referred to me as a “Dean of African Linguistics”. He and I taught in University of Illinois.
Q: Could you recount some of your defining moments?
A: Well, the one I can think think of now is the day I became professor because I came in as a lecturer grade 11 in 1963. In 1964, I became lecturer 1, in 1966, I became Senior Lecturer, in 1968, I became professor. It was rare to go through in five years. The day I became professor, I was not in the house. I was out. Before I came, people had descended on the house and they started calling me professor. It was strange. I think that was a defining moment for me.
Q: Sir, can you talk about your love life?
A: Well, I don’t want to go too much into that. I went to St Andrew’s College, where they have strict rules. It is a crime to have anything to do with women. So, you must not have anything to do with any woman. When I graduated from the school, I didn’t have much by way of experience until somebody that became my wife came to work in the same school as me.
Q: Which School, Sir?
A: The school is Christ Church School, Ilaro. Ogun State. It is an Anglican school. She also came as a teacher. I was senior to her. We got married and had children.
Q: What was the point of attraction?
A: That is not something you can define. You know we were together. We agreed the way we looked at things.
Q: Are you saying there was no lady before you met the lady you married?
A: I don’t want to go into that.
Q: How did you and Prof Ayo Banjo meet and are able to develop your relationship to the extent that you are seen as twin brothers?
A: As I said, I was employed in UI in 1963. Professor Banjo was an education officer. Later, he joined Department of English. At that time, all the teachers, both in English and my department, Linguistics, were whites. Later, another young man, Bernard Mafeni, joined my department. So, we were three. We were the only three black people in the two departments. We worked together. If there is a conference, we go together. If there is a social event, we will go together including our wives. That was the first part. The second part was that Harold Whitehall, a Professor of English supervised Professor Banjo. When Professor Banjo was to be examined, I was his internal examiner as Dr Bamgbose then. Beyond that, familywise, we were very, very close. He then became Vice Chancellor. I have a policy not to go to people who are in high positions, because it will be assumed that you are seeking for assistance. What he did was very amazing. He was coming to my house, this house, regularly. We would talk. If he wanted me to come, he would say so and I will go to the lodge. We would talk. That continued. We also go to the same Chapel and we always talk. So, people ask, what were these people talk about? So, we are not just friends, we are like brothers now. Actually, one thing many people don’t know is that if there is an issue and you go to Prof Banjo to seek his opinion, he tells you. Then you come to me and seek my opinion and I tell you almost exactly the same thing and the response is: but that was what Professor Banjo told me! We share principles.
Q: Maybe the two of you should have been born by the same parents?
A: I don’t think so. His father, Archdeacon, who was then Canon Banjo was my principal, when I was teaching at St Luke College, Molete, Ibadan. I taught there as a tutor. So, I keep saying that my connection with the Banjo’s family was before Ayo Banjo.
Q: What is your view on Nigerian language policy? Why is it so difficult for Nigeria to have national language?
A: The main thing is that people misunderstand the concept of national language. In a situation like Nigeria, where you have over 400 languages, it is going to be difficult to pick just one. What we have advocated, is to say, okay, which are the major languages? Obviously, Hausa, Yoruba and Igbo stand out. Why don’t we develop these three languages and ask everybody to learn one other than the one they already have. One will spread more and you can use the three. If anyone does not involve, it doesn’t matter. Switzerland has four national languages. That is it.
Q: South Africa is not monolithic?
A: South Africa has 11 national languages.
Q: Canada has two official languages. Even if it means starting with the three major languages, why can’t we put efforts into having national languages?
A: Politics.
Q: Politics? That is a dangerous angle to the national language policy because if there is anything that has been affecting the development of Nigeria, it is politics. Now, the question is this, with the current configuration of Nigeria, do you subscribe to the fact that there is a need for the redefinition of a country called Nigeria because we have never gotten it right?
A: Well, I don’t see a future unless we retrace our steps and strengthen the components parts of Nigeria.
Q: Could you expatiate?
A: Fortunately, I was already born when we had the Western Region. I knew Chief Obafemi Awolowo. I have been to his house. I have spoken with him. When he was released from prison, I went to visit him with some people. The miracle that he performed in the Western Region wouldn’t have been possible if he had a system where everything came from Abuja. It is obvious. That is what we need. We once talked about zones; whether four, six or whatever, that is the way to go.
Q: Are you talking about regional government?
A: Call it anything. The idea of going cap in hand to Abuja every month to share nonsense is so ridiculous.
Q: What you just suggested looks highly impossible in Nigeria. 2023 is around the corner and Yoruba politicians are already jostling to become the next president under the structure that is unfavourable and not working. What good thing will anybody who becomes the next president with a defective and bad constitution do? If a Yoruba man becomes a president, what good can he do under the current configuration of Nigeria? What can they do with a bias and unacceptable constitution to the majority of Nigerians?
A: I agree entirely with you. Anybody who gets there now will continue with the usual thing. It is power. Aso Rock is a powerful thing. They will not change anything. As for Yoruba Parapo, I think, it is more important that we focus on the South West for what we can do in terms of restructuring.
Q: Sir, Bola Ahmed Tinubu came up with a great innovation to redefine Nigeria by creating local government, which is called LCDA, it is not recognized by the constitution. All the state in the south west came up with Amotekun to tackle insecurity, the Federal Government is not allowing it to work. The Federal Government is doing everything within its power to kill Amotekun. What can the south west do when the federal power will not want them to do something reasonable?
A: The answer is nothing. And yet, up there in the North, there are vigilantes, there are groups that are recognized and they are even armed and nobody is touching them. Nigeria is hmm…I don’t know. I just feel that what is happening is absolutely unfair. You use one measure for one area and another measure for another area. Amotekun is one of the best initiatives that we have ever experienced and yet the then Inspector General of Police tried to kill it. Fortunately, it survived. The reason why they want to kill Amotekun is that Amotekun will curb those who are coming to terrorise us. They don’t want that one. I am not interested in politics and I am not a member of any party, but I will speak the truth.
Q: Sir what is your take on the state of education in Nigeria?
A: The common saying is that education has fallen. But the real problem is that quite a number of people who have now been enrolled in education don’t have access before. We have to take that into consideration. I think the major thing is we need qualified teachers. We don’t have enough. If we do, it would have affected the standard of education. A situation which we have people taking the same exam and you require that some should have 60 % before going in, the rest can have 10 %. Obviously, that is nonsensical. What product we you expect from that?
Q: What grieves you most about this generation?
A: What makes me unhappy is the crazy idea for wealth. People think that as long as they can make money, it doesn’t matter. It affects everything. The idea that it doesn’t rarely matter how people make money is bad. I never knew that artists, who sing, people in Nollywood, have so much money, I never knew. I never knew until one man donated so much, Wizkid, or whatever they call him and many people are copying him, that is a model they follow. Now, the thing has come to another dimension, the Yahoo boys, making money. That makes me very sad. When I was younger, our ambition is read, get yourself educated, and the sky is your limit. This is not what this generation is doing to make money.
Q: What is your advice for your younger colleagues in academics?
A: My advice to academics is to return to the job of teaching and research because when I was in the system, you would find many of us at 10pm in the faculty. We were doing our work. Today, you find many academics going round, teaching in several universities, especially private ones and devoting not much attention to their jobs. A lot of, I don’t know, whether you call it consultancy, that will bring money from the outside. I think it is important to return to the main thing, the core of the academic work.
Q: Could you share your experience as a lecturer during the military era?
A: As for the experience under the military era, it was very sad. Very, very sad. We were almost sacked at that time because of the dictate of the military. And I think, the influence of the military is still there, even now.
