SENATOR BABAFEMI OJUDU, a former editor and co-founder of the Independent Communication Network Limited (ICNL), publisher of The News magazine and PM News, among others (which are now defunct), transitioned from the vibrant world of journalism to the ruthless world of politics, which is dominated by power-hungry and profit-driven individuals. Reflecting on his remarkable journey, he recently published his journalism memoir, Adventures of a Guerrilla Journalist. The much-anticipated text, published in November 2024, is currently trending and sparking widespread journalistic and academic discussions. Its exposé explores Nigeria’s socio-political and economic landscape, uncovering themes of inherent factors responsible for the Nigerian underdevelopment, poverty, poor education and health system, diabolism, greed, corruption, tribalism, and religious and ethnic bias, defining the nation’s politics, among others. The book also highlights the heavy toll, including death, the ultimate sacrifice, which journalists endured in their pursuit of a uniquely Nigerian version of democracy.
In the memoir, Ojudu exposes the heartlessness of the Nigerian politicians through the characterisation of the likes of Ayo Fayose, the former governor of Ekiti State. He confirmed that some politicians use their fellow humans for ritual to get to power and maintain it. Ojudu narrates how one Segun Bamiteko, a local politician visited him in his Acme, Ogba, Lagos office, to narrate how “he was very close to Governor Ayo Fayose of Ekiti State, when the latter was vying for the position. He spoke of how he and a juju man in Igogo Ekiti, his home town, had gone to Shasha Market in Ibadan with the governor to kidnap a pregnant woman, brought her to Ado Ekiti, and butchered her. He claimed they took out her amniotic fluid, which was sprinkled in the water contained in a tanker that Fayose used to supply portable water to the people.”
Ojudu “saw finish” Fela Anikulapo Kuti, a Nigerian Afrobeat singer and political activist and couldn’t resist not sharing how he circumstantially stumbled on this man called “Abami Eda” (spirit man) engaging in sex with a woman. One day, Ojudu rushed to Fela’s shrine to inform him that government security agents have kidnapped his brother, Beko. Informing Fela that Ojudu was around to see him, he ordered that he should be allowed into his bedroom. When Ojudu, whom Fela calls “Akowe” opened the door, he found Fela and a woman, both naked, on top of each other and sweaty, engrossed in energetic sex. Shocked to the marrow at the obscenity, his attempt to bolt out was halted by Fela’s voice, “Akowe, enter now, you no dey fuck?”
In 1990, Ojudu and his colleague, Seye Kehinde was saddled with a responsibility of crafting an in–depth exposé on call girls carrying out their service business in Allen Avenue, Ikeja, Lagos. As they stopped the car, they had to pick from the swarm of pay-for-sex girls that surrounded them. The one picked asked the two reporters, “Am I going to service the two of you… Are you using condom or not”, and they told her that the action would be performed flesh to flesh.
Ojudu also shared the experience of Nigerians in the hands of the nation’s most repressed government, late General Sani Abacha. Among his victims was Chief Gani Fawehinmi, a foremost activist who fought the military government to a standstill without holding a gun. He was imprisoned in Borno for years. The story of Gideon Orkar, the leader of 1990 coup that rattled the military head of state at the time, General Ibrahim Badamosi Babangida and how he was arrested and executed, was told.
Other notable national events mentioned include MKO Abiola’s 1993 presidential election, which was annulled by IBB, a decision that still haunts him today. It also covers the assassination of the editor, Newswatch magazine, Dele Giwa, the struggles of The News magazine under military rule, and how Abacha used Gilbert Chagoury to siphon billions from the government, making him an humongous corrupt military head of state. Ironically, Chagoury is now a close ally of President Bola Ahmed Tinubu, who awarded him a billion-naira coastal project. The narrative also highlights NADECO’s secret routes for activists fleeing the country, multiple raids on ICNL and its journalists, and how Senator Orji Kalu once begged to suppress a story that could have cost him his position as a governor of Abia State, which he held from 29 May 1999 to 29 May 2007.
One of the key stories he shared was about how guerrilla journalism was used to challenge the military, ultimately forcing them back to the barracks and paving the way for democracy in Nigeria. He was one of the many journalists who paid a heavy price for this fight, narrowly escaped death to tell his story, unlike Dele Giwa, who was killed in a parcel bomb attack during General Ibrahim Babangida’s regime, a case that remains unsolved to this day. Ojudu himself was imprisoned by Abacha and spent eight months in a dungeon, only regaining his freedom after Abacha’s death. These and other experiences were discussed by Ojudu in an interview with GBENRO ADESINA.
Senator Babafemi Ojudu and Gbenro Adesina
Q: Are you hoping to become the governor of Ekiti State?
A: No, no, no. I have my hands full. Besides, by March this year, I’ll be 64. Why will people of my generation not give room to the younger ones? They have the energy, they have the know-how. All we need to do is to sit back, mentor them, and get them to do what is good for the country. We can’t hold on to power for long and call people in their 40s leaders of tomorrow. When will they be leaders? Let us allow the younger ones give us a better country. I believe that by the time one is 60, one shouldn’t be hoping to be governor again. People of 60 years and above can go to the Senate, sit as elder statesmen, and direct the affairs of law-making and a few other things.
Q: You said your hands are full. What exactly are you doing now?
A: I am writing. I am into art collection. I mentor people and will continue to add value to their lives. I plan to have an art residency in Ekiti and bring in younger artists. They will stay with me, do their work and at the end, we will have exhibitions. In the third quarter of the year, I’ll bring writers and let them have time with me to write books. We’ll let them go around Ekiti State, and appreciate nature, and the environment. Life shouldn’t be about I want to be this and that. This idea of thinking about the next election, the political appointments, are no longer significant to me. There are other things one can do to live a fulfilled life outside politics.
Q: This interview came about as a result of your recently published book titled, Adventures of a Guerrilla Journalist. Is this your first book?
A: No. It is the third book.
Q: So, you are a guerrilla journalist?
A: Yes, I was a guerrilla journalist. The situation at that time can’t allow you to publish and go home to rest. You can’t publish the truth and remain in your office. Many times, you are declared wanted on radio and television. Many times, you are arrested, and locked up. You have to survive by adopting some of the strategies of guerrilla warriors, which is asymmetrical warfare. You’re there today and tomorrow, you are not. Once you are aware that they are looking for you, you have to sneak out of the country.
Q: Can you speak to the picture in front of the book?
A: That was the day I was released from detention. I wore a shirt for over eight months. It was torn because I used it to sleep on the bare floor for eight months. Immediately I was released, I quickly changed into the shirt in this picture. See my overgrown beard!
Q: In a tribute by Mr Bayo Onanuga on your 60th birthday, he said, “I think his departure from journalism to politics is a great loss for our profession”. Have you left journalism finally?
A: No, no, no, I haven’t. I just had a leave of absence. I was in active politics. Now, I am writing, and publishing on Facebook. Journalism is part of my life. Nothing can take it away. In terms of being formerly employed as a journalist, the idea of the old journalism, where you have to write, and the piece is printed is what I’m not doing now. I write every day. I’ve just completed a piece that I just posted on Facebook. I love writing. I love observing. I still have the instinct of a reporter, and of an investigative journalist wherever I go. Not quite long, I was at the University of Ibadan (UI), to attend a programme in honour of Professor Niyi Osundare. There, I went to a toilet, which I found very bad. I took photographs. I went around the campus and took photographs. I also saw a park demolished, which I used to love when I served there as a youth corps member.
Q: You served in UI?
A: Yes, I did my one year mandatory NYSC in UI. As I said, I saw a park demolished and I wrote about it. That for me is the instinct of a journalist, who sees things that will be of interest to people and write and comment on it. For me, once a journalist will always be a journalist.
Q: Journalism is a noble profession. Why did you leave such a profession for politics that is considered dirty?
A: I went into politics because I wanted a change in Nigeria. I wanted things to be done properly. I wanted people to live well. When democracy came in 1999, if I had gone to Ekiti to contest, I would’ve probably been a governor or a senator. Then, I didn’t see myself as a politician. When people were coming to me, I told them I couldn’t do politics. Now, living under democracy, and considering the passion that drove us to do what we did to bring us democracy, I felt that rather than being an investigator, or an editorial writer, I should participate in politics with a view to influencing a change. This is a decision in my life…, I don’t regret things, but I didn’t achieve my aim of going into politics. There is no way I could have. Politics is not like journalism where people of like minds come together and say this is what we want to do. Politicians are funny guys coming into politics. For me, it was frustrating. My time in the Senate was the worst time in my life ever. I am telling you.
Q: So, you won’t give it a shot again?
A: It is most unlikely. Most unlikely.
Q: Most of you who founded ICNL went into politics. Yourself, Idowu Obasa and Bayo Onanuga?
(Cut-in). Not most of us. Obasa was a local government chairman, who said no, this is not it. Let me go back to what I know how to do. I don’t ever believe that he will ever contest election again. Seye (Kehinde) has never been a politician. Kunle Ajibade too. I am not sure Kunle can stand politics.
Q: I think Ajibade is the most quiet among you?
A: Yes. Bayo wanted to run for Senate and he couldn’t cope.
Q: Onanuga, in his tribute to you said he didn’t know what you did when you were in the Senate. Could you highlight some of the significant things you did in the Senate?
A: Quite a lot. I was a pain in the neck of the leadership of the Senate when I was there. They called where I was sitting ‘the axis of trouble’. Then, I would raise my hand, used my legs to bang and shout. I was not allowed to talk. I was granting interview to the press. Committees were set-up. The first committee which I served was the committee set up to review privatisation. We went round the country. Anybody that have attended our sitting would know that this guy was hot. Before we started, I wrote to the bank to let me know of anybody that put money in my account without my authorisation. I fought for the oppressed. For example, there were 13 Ekiti people who were employed into the NSCDC. They collected money from them before employing them. They got employed and then, they were offered letters of employment. They have started receiving salaries. Later, the authority claimed they were not properly engaged and sacked them. I took up the matter. I made a lot of noise about it and they were reinstated. There was a time money was allocated in the budget for projects in Ekiti. They then put names of roads in Sokoto and other places. I raised hell until the right things were done. At home, I provided transformers for many communities and made many boreholes for some communities that did not have water. I built four classrooms in my alma mater, and annually, I conducted essay competition among students of my constituency and 20 students selected each time were given laptops and money to pay their tuition fees. I gave N25,000 to 570 women as a grant to invest in their business.
Q: What about legislative bills?
A: I came up with good bills, particularly, the one that will make it compulsory for anybody who wants to govern Nigeria to submit himself for debate. It was a battle to make it to be heard. By the time it was to be heard, the majority voted against it. It was a very bad one. When I left, I got Senator Fatai Buhari from Oyo State to also re-present the bill and I supported him. They still threw it out. One thing is to come with a bill and another thing is for the bill to be listed. There is a big politics behind that. Politics and corruption is behind listing bills to be heard. I will not elaborate on that.
Q: Does the involvement of some ICNL staff in politics compromise the company’s objectivity, radical stance, or its editorial policy?
A: No, I don’t think so. We write critical things about the All Progressive Congress (APC). I will not stop anybody from writing, even, if they have something to write about me, as long as it is factual. We are liberal enough to tolerate other people’s viewpoints. Reportorial instinct went with me to the Senate. When I realised that the journalists there were not doing what they should do, I invited some of them to my office and asked them why they were not seeing certain things. I promised to be their source. One or two of them went to tell the authority. One of the people at the top called me and said Femi, the people you had a meeting with in your office came to tell us what you want to do. Don’t allow yourself to be killed. From that moment, I severed my relationship with journalists there.
Q: Among those who gave you money to start ICNL is Bola Ahmed Tinubu, whom you claimed gave you N250,000. In total, how much did he give you?
A: Honestly, I don’t have that off-hand and I also will not like to talk about Tinubu in this interview so that it doesn’t look as if I am after him. He wasn’t the only one that gave us money. Late Chief Gani Fawehimni also did.
Q: And Fawehinmi took the money back. How did you feel when he demanded for the money he voluntarily gave to assist in starting your business?
A: Gani is radical. I am radical. We are bound to disagree. When he said look, Femi, if you will not support me to uproot Tinubu from Lagos, then I will never assist you again. And he requested for the money. We quickly issued a cheque to him.
Q: And it didn’t strain the relationship?
A: It did to an extent.
Q: At what point was it amended?
A: Wherever we meet, I greet him. He was cold to me. He abhorred ill-feeling towards me. It is one of those things. When that had not happened, I’ll go to his house, and we would eat together. He introduced me to appreciating all kinds of coffee. Sometimes, he would pack all manners of coffee for me. I could go to his office at any time. I never waited to see him. I’ll just get there, open the door, Femco, Femco, he would hail me and we would talk. Our relationship pre-dated those period because I was a benefactor of his scholarship scheme. I made sure I attended all the ceremonies to give him a befitting burial.
Q: The assistance rendered to the take-off of ICNL, did it, in any way, affect the objectivity and the editorial policy of ICNL?
A: No. I remember when Tinubu became the governor, it wasn’t up to three months when Bayo wrote against him. He called me and complained about it. We just spoke about it and life continued. Let me tell you this, we are a different breed. I remember one day, when I returned from Abuja, I went into the printing press. I saw a story already printed. It was about a daughter of a friend of my dad. I said, oh! this is trouble for me. I didn’t know how the story came about. I wasn’t part of it. That lady’s mum and my day didn’t greet till both died because of that story.
Q: Can you say that ICNL still have that ideology till date?
A: I am not there now. Now, I follow The News magazine tangentially. I am still part of the owners but I can’t confidently say anything about the titles as it is now.
Q: Tinubu financially contributed to the start of ICNL. Osinbajo at the time was providing legal service pro bono. You vowed that you will not support Tinubu…
A: (cut-in) Like I said earlier on, let us take away this Tinubu thing.
Q: Can we refer to this book as a memoir because I have heard people referring to it as autobiography?
A: Yes, it is a memoir of my journalism years.
Q: In as much as I will not like to dwell on Tinubu, considering what Nigerians are going through, do you think Osinbajo would have been better?
A: Honestly, I’ll resist going into this issue of comparing Osinbajo and Tinubu. I have done that. Already you have seen my interview with Edmond Obilo. Why will I then be repeating myself? Why can’t you explore other issues?
Q: In 2027, will you encourage Osinbajo to run?
A: I don’t know. It depends on him. If he wants to contest, fine. I have not spoken to him for a while. I don’t know his mind about what his future portends politically. It is left to him to decide on what he wants. He is an adult and a professor of law. I mean, a great guy.
Q: The major problem we have is leadership. By my opinion, I don’t think we have got it right. This means we are still expecting a Messiah. Among the civilian administrations from 1999 till date, who will you score best, 1st, 2nd and 3rd position?
A: That will be subjective. The only thing that I’ll say is that it is morning yet on democracy day in Nigeria
Q: How can you describe General Ibrahim Badamosi Babangida?
A: He is a brilliant man. He is a very intelligent brilliant man.
Q: How do you rate his administration?
A: I don’t want to rate but I want to tell you that IBB was a person who prepared for leadership. I think two persons really prepared themselves for leadership: IBB and late Chief Obafemi Awolowo. IBB is detribalised. If you look at his regime, he went for the best irrespective of the tribe. I think his major mistake happened at the last moment when he snatched defeat from the jaw of victory – the annulment of June 12, 1993 presidential election. If he had allowed that election to stay, and allowed MKO Abiola to become president, he would have returned as Nigerian civilian president. If he hadn’t returned, he would have had a place at the international arena.
Q: Regarding late Journalist Dele Giwa, all fingers point to Babangida as the killer. You mentioned in your book about an ex-soldier who told you that the bomb that was used to kill Dele Giwa was prepared under his watch. Why is it difficult for IBB to take responsibility of the assassination of Dele Giwa?
A: I am aware that IBB has now decided to bring out his autobiography. It is in the works. I am told. Maybe, that will unravel the death of Dele Giwa.
Q: Why didn’t you drink the coffee given to you in Babangida’s house when you visited him?
A: I was a young man. If one wants to die, one should not die a useless death. We’ve heard quite a lot about IBB, either true or false.
Q: You equally rejected a financial gift from him?
A: Of course. It is in our nature in those days. If myself and Bayo had gone alone, there could be rumours. We brought one of the youngest reporters to come with us so that he would be our witness that we didn’t take money from him. If we are not journalists, and he was not a subject of controversy, we would have taken a gift from him. So, as journalists, we saw it as unethical. That has been our practice all the way. Sometimes, in 1994, or 1995, Ibrahim, the son of late General Sani Abacha offered N50 million naira to buy shares in The News magazine. It was the time when we were striving for survival but we rejected it. It would have been like taking poison if we had taken that money. The money would have destroyed the organisation. N50 million naira will be like half a billion now.
Q: In this era of commercial journalism, how can you describe Nigerian journalism practice in terms of ethics, fairness and objectivity?
A: Journalism in Nigeria is challenged right now, ethically, quality and content wise. If there is a democracy and there is no vibrant media, that democracy will not grow. This is why our democracy is not growing. If you pick up newspapers published in UK, USA, New Zealand, and Australia, you will see how vibrant journalism is. When we were younger, The Guardian, Punch or Tribune would write powerful editorials.
Q: What are the factors responsible for this?
A: One, environment. Journalists practicing today are challenged educationally. Their knowledge is limited, and the reasoning, the logic and the style is no longer as vibrant as it should be. Second, economy. People are trying to survive. Again you set up a communication outfit, newspaper, radio or television stations, and you are unable to pay salaries. Staff have to survival.
Q: Is there anything government can do to address this problem?
A: At a time, it was canvassed that media houses should receive subventions since it is called the Fourth Estate of the Realm. Journalism is of importance to the survival of our democracy. But the problem is if government start giving the media subventions, how will it be free and fair? Government subventions will come with government control and influence. If we are going to have a vibrant media, we have to set up vibrant schools, where journalists will be trained. They must be people who are well schooled in Economics, Political Science, Philosophy and English Language. They must be able to express themselves clearly and effortlessly. The materials for newspapers are dollar denominated. Newsprint, printing machine, ink for printing, and the parts of the machines are not manufactured in Nigeria. So, it takes a lot of money to sustain newspaper business in Nigeria. Again, readership is very low because of educational problem and journalists not providing things that people want to read. If you pick up a paper in Nigeria, under 10 minutes, you flip through and you are through. A newspaper in England may take a whole day to finish. It is a combination of factors we have to look into. We can’t go on this way. A democracy without a searchlight of journalist is going to be something akin to banditry.
Q: What can be done to have journalism regain its lost glory?
A: One, a sound education for those who want to become journalists. Second, a passion to wanting to become a good journalist. It is not a profession you go into because you want to be rich or ride big cars or build houses. Standard of living for journalists must be improved. You can’t throw journalists on the streets, and three months, you have not paid their salaries. In that situation, he has no option than to use his ID card to negotiate and he will see black and call it white. If somebody is hungry and he is having a challenge about how he will pay his house rent, and somebody gives him N50,000, he will write that a catholic nun is an armed robber. Also, government will have to remove tariffs from the importation of printing machines, news print and ink. And part of good education is to be able to train journalists to write what people want to read. It is not enough to have technical capacities. In-depth analysis, in-depth investigation and in-depth reporting are things that sustain newspapers. In the last few years, I have not read a hard copy of Nigerian newspapers. Why will I spend money on what I’ll not get value from? I read on social media. I subscribe to the foreign newspapers like New Yorker, New York Times, Washington Post, and Economist of London. When I am reading these papers, at times, I forget to eat because I am getting value for my time and money. That doesn’t happen to our local publications.
Q: You wrote about the 1990 Major Gideon Orkar coup. Have we learnt from the coup and has the reasons why Orkar planned the coup been addressed?
A: I think we are much more divided now than when Orkar carried out a coup and if that thing happens this time, unfortunately, people will embrace it. What we need is a leader who can bring us together. In Rwanda, nobody talks about tribes again. The man said nobody should talk about tribes again. We are a nation.
Q: You mentioned in the book that you stole a negative from a photo studio in order to get Orkar’s picture. How ethical is this?
A: Let me tell you straight way, if I have a reporter and I want him to get me something, I don’t care how he does it, he should go and get it for me whichever way. Maybe, in the course of getting the information, you hurt an individual to protect the entire race or the entire country. In getting that negative, I pity the owner of the shop but again, we treated her well. We gave her good money. The issue is that there was a threat to the unity of the country. Somebody tried to seize power and to send a part of the country out of the country and nobody knows anything about him. It is our responsibility to enlighten Nigeria about this guy, and about his philosophy, among other things.
Q: On page xvi, you talked about government repressing the media and that the more the government attempted to repress, the louder your voice resonates. Do you think the voice of the media still resonates today?
A: That is what I am saying. Nobody takes Nigerian journalists serious anymore. Agencies of the government don’t subscribe to newspapers anymore because nothing is left again. It is not the government repressing now but people themselves repress freedom of the press now.
Q: How?
A: There are telephones and data in the hands of ignorant people who are usually sent to abuse those who write the truth. And not everybody can absorb abuse like Olusegun Obasanjo and President Tinubu or people like us. People who are ignorant are in control. They will go on social media and start abusing. Most of the time, they wouldn’t have read the articles they are reacting to. Before you know it, they have interpreted it in their own way. If you’re the one whose skin is too light, you just move back and say, I don’t want trouble. Let them go and do whatever they like. For me, the oppressors, and the repressors are the ignorant people that are the majority in our society now, not the government. Again, maybe, the government uses them; buy China phone for them, and give them N500 data. I use to call them data boys and girls. Before you publish anything, within one second of posting something that is about 2000 words, they are already abusing you.
Q: Is civilian government repressive too?
A: You can’t compare repression from 1999 to what happened in those days. There are occasional cases of arrest and detention. Some people who are arrested for what they write are blackmailers, who do that for money. If you write something that is not right about somebody, you will be arrested. I do not support extra-judicial treatments of journalists. If they are found wanting in the course of doing their job, they should be taken to court.
Q: You wrote about Fela in the book. Can you share your experience of encountering Fela in a compromised situation?
A: Fela is a very strange person and that is why he is being referred to as “Abami Eda” (spirit man). He is not a regular person. He is a spirit. If Fela has come maybe about 200 years ago, he would have been probably one of the gods in Yoruba land. He is immune to what you think about him. Imagine somebody walking around the house and on the stage only in pant. And he would put toilet roll under his pant to make the place look bulging. I was shocked when I experienced what I narrated about him.
Q: You met him on top of a lady ‘doing it’?
A: Yes. I saw it. I just said this is crazy. I ran back. And his response was, why are you running away? Don’t you make love? He believes that love making shouldn’t be hidden and that it is part of life.
Q: How did he perceive women?
A: He loves and respect women.
Q: Back to journalism. What is the connection between journalism and activism since you were among those who established some civil society organisations?
A: Activism brought many people of my generation into journalism. Look at Lanre Arogundade, Kayode Komolafe, and others who write till date. They were all students’ activists in the higher institutions. To give ourselves voices, we had to join journalism. We did our work and we were professional. Again, we were also activist. We didn’t allow that to colour our journalism work. We only felt that we have responsibilities to our society, to defend the society, the people, to canvass for democracy, and to canvass for the right of individuals in society.
Q: So we can say that journalists are also activists?
A: Exactly. If you look at history, those who campaigned and fought for the decolonisation of Nigeria were journalists. Obafemi Awolowo, Herbert Macaulay, Nnamdi Azikwe, Chief Anthony Enahoro, and Peter Enahoro and several others were all journalists. They used their pens to condemn colonialism, oppression and repression. Some of them went beyond journalism into politics and led Nigeria. After independence, some of them became the movement for a better Nigeria. Those who were in Nigerian Tribune then, you can’t separate them from Action Group or UPN. They used their pen to canvass for good governance. They propagate the ideas and ideals of Awolowo. When the civil war came, the same journalists were at the forefront, keeping Nigeria as one. It is a task that must be done. Many of them went to the war front to report. The moment that was over and the military was in power and they were reluctant to leave power, journalists also came in to fight for them to quit power. They fought corruption.
Q: Is it correct to say that to be a good journalist, there must be at least a little bit of…
A: (cut-in) Social conscience. You can’t be a trader and be a good journalist. Even, if you are reporting technology, sport, economy, and health issues, you must have social conscience. It is very important and that is what is lacking now. Somebody is being deprived of his freedom and a journalist is looking for money from those who are depriving people of their rights, that journalist lacks social conscience and he can’t be a good journalist.
Q: What is your concept of New Journalism that you mentioned in your book?
A: The idea of New Journalism is being able to see things from human’s perspective. Reporting from the view point of those who are involved. When an accident happens on the road, rather than saying the vehicle is going at 100km per hour, the road was bad, the police was not available, no. You see the accident, you see the victim writhing in pool of blood, maybe, with a child besides her, and the legs broken, crying for help, somebody comes, offers him water, and then an ambulance comes, and take the victim to the hospital. You throw in some human elements into it. From then, you can now go into the issue of bad road, lack of enough policemen or road safety men on the road. You start your story with something emotional. From there, go to other issues you want to address. It is like story telling in a manner that will be of interest to people. You take off from the not too serious to the serious. By the time you get to the serious, you would have sucked in your readers. Sometimes, readers are put off from the intro. You start from emotive as if you are writing a novel.
Q: Do you think Nigerian journalists are good at that?
A: Honestly, let us just stop at that.
Q: Does the story of Ita Oko you narrated on page 45 affirm unofficial prisons system in Nigeria?
A: At that time, yes.
Q: What about now?
A: I wouldn’t know. Journalists should go and investigate and see if such a thing still exist.
Q: In your book, you mentioned that the Yoruba holds that MKO Abiola played a major role in the abortion of Awolowo’s dream of becoming president. Do you share that opinion?
A: He was a Yoruba man from Ogun State, who was in NPN, and was one of the richest persons in Nigeria.
Q: Do you consider that as an error?
A: That was his own belief at that time. That was his own politics and people are free to do their politics. It is a political battle. He didn’t believe in Awolowo then, and he had to use all that he had, in conjunction with others, to stop him from becoming a president. But I think he got punished for it by the Yoruba people and later, they forgave him.
Q: Why is it difficult for the Yoruba tribe to unite over common good and interest?
A: This has to do with Yoruba liberalism. The Yorubas are liberal. It is good for the society, for people to disagree. I am against “Yoruba ronu” that is canvassed at every election. Let everybody think independently and be able to decide what is good for them.
Q: To get things right in Nigeria, what is your suggestion?
A: We must have the aggregate of people who believe in Nigeria. We must aggregate people who have vision, we must have people who have ideas and ideals and are detribalised. They must come together from different parts of the country, form a movement, and mobilise towards that movement.
Q: Are you talking in the direction of revolution?
A: It doesn’t have to be revolution. If we have the best of the East, coming together with the best of the West, the North and organise a political party and take decision that are not driven by ethnicity and religion and give power to the best of this country, change will come. But when you feel that a fool from a part of the country is better than a genius from another part and you vote for a fool, whatever you get, so be it for you.
Q: Gilbert Chagoury assisted Sani Abacha to steal money from the Nigerian treasury. President Tinubu has brought him back again and awarded a huge contract of the Lagos-Calabar Coastal Highway of 700 kilometre to him. Is he not going to do the same thing he did for Abacha for Tinubu?
A: I will not like to elaborate on that beyond what I have in the book. That is the way of power in Nigeria.
Q: So what happened during Abacha’s time may repeat itself again under Tinubu?
A: That is your opinion.
Q: Can you shed light on how Moshood Fayemiwo was drugged and kidnapped by Abacha’s men and about others who suffered similar fates? Additionally, could you discuss how the government has weaponised kidnapping as a tool for political repression?
A: Yes of course, the government does it. Under dictatorship, when you are intolerant of journalists, freedom of speech, plurality, that is the kind of things you find. It is not strange under dictatorship.
Q: But civilians can also be undemocratic?
A: I agree with you. Regarding Moshood, he is the publisher of Razor Magazine, which is in the line of what Tempo magazine did. He escaped from Nigeria. They were looking for him. He went to Cotonou. In a hotel in Cotonou, he was kidnapped, then drugged, put in the boot of a car and brought back to Nigeria and kept in an underground cell. He came out after the death of Abacha and left Nigeria. He acquired PhD in America.
Q: You also wrote that Segun Bamiteko came to you to tell you about how Ayo Fayose kidnapped a pregnant woman, killed her and used her amniotic fluid to mix with the water he was giving freely to the people. Why did you tell the police since you were aware that Segun Bamiteko is also involved?
A: I got his permission to do so for his protection.
Q: How has your prison experience impacted you?
A: Journalism is suicidal. If you are going to be a true journalist, you must be ready to encounter inconveniences. For me, going to jail was an inconvenience. Again, I have made up my mind about it. You will be surprised if I tell you that as crazy as it was, as a 27 years old guy, I did a draft of my will. I never knew I could live up to 40 or 50. I believe that everyday that I live is a bonus for me because I have done crazy things. I was abducted in the night at the border and was taken to where they would kill me. I was with Kunle Ajibade some days ago. We were talking and wondering how we ever went into such things. What propelled us? We were propelled to save Nigeria. When I reflect on my days in the prison, sitting and sleeping on the bare floor, I look at it and say, well, that is the stage we were then. Again, if the circumstance requires that I do that again, I will do it.
Q: Are you saying Nigeria is worth dying for?
A: Yes. if you have social conscience, you should be able to give your life to your country.
Q: What about leaders, who hold that Nigeria is not worth dying for, just like what a late governor once said?
A: That is why they also govern the way they govern. If you are a patriot and you need to sacrifice your life for your country, why not. That is why we have soldiers who go to war and face guns and bombs.
Q: What is your advice to Nigerian journalist, legislators, Nigerians and the youth?
A: For journalists, if you know you don’t have passion for the profession, if you know you don’t have social conscience, if you know you are not willing to take risk for Nigeria and for the profession, please don’t go there. For legislators, it is pity that I have for them because if you are a legislator in Nigeria, you go through a lot and people don’t know. People just see the glamour and think this people are enjoying. You will go through an excruciating process to get there, excruciating process to remain there, people insult and abuse them, people make them do things they didn’t sign up for. If you want to live in peace, it is better to have small money and live your life well than to go and be a law maker. Again, it is because we don’t have our priority right. If we do, and they have good education, good health system, maybe, pressure on legislators will be lighter and they will live a better life. In Nigeria, if their wives are unable to get pregnant, they will come to you for help. When she gives birth, they will tell you “iyawo yin bi omo” (your wife has delivered a baby). They are talking about their wives. They want money for naming ceremony and all that. I think as Nigerians, we have to get serious, all of us, and decide we want a better country. You can’t collect money on the day of election from an aspiring person and think that person will serve you. He has sold his house and property to pay you. In Ekiti, my place, they call it “dibo ko se be (vote and cook a pot of soup). After cooking a pot of soup, eat your pot of soup for the next four years. The man who gave you the money to cook a pot of soup has paid you. At that point, the man is a trader. A trader look forward to profit. To the young people of Nigeria, my advice is that they should bond together, organise, mobilise and stop agonising. How old was Nnamdi Azikiwe when he came up with NCNC? Awolowo became leader of Yoruba at the age of 42, Enahoro was an editor at 22, and moved the motion for independence at 27. You guys should not be abusing Wole Soyinka for not fighting for you. The man is in his 90s. He has been fighting since he was a teenager. Take your destiny in your hands. Don’t be lazy and think anybody should come and fight for you. You have the energy, you can take risk, plan and use all that you have to bring about change in Nigeria. Forget your personal comfort now. Think of your future, the future of your children.
